Boys Will Be Boys?

One of the assumptions about the youth experience is that it’s always more progressive than what came before.   Whether it be attitudes toward diversity or drugs, young people are usually one step ahead of those a little older, right? 

But in our research we keep seeing and hearing things that make us think that maybe some things aren’t progressing.   Perhaps even going backwards.  

Maybe we shouldn’t be too surprised given the toxic swamp of online content they’re faced with, and the fact they’re growing up in the ‘Permacrisis’. 

And yet…. 

52% of young people think women rights have gone too far * 

23% of young boys are highly positive about Andrew Tate and even 1 in 10 young girls think he’s awesome (spoiler:  he very much is not awesome).  **

And according to campus statistics over 1 in 4 female students are raped or sexually assaulted during their time in university.***

So we interviewed 17-year-old Olivia from California to try and understand how progressive she thinks her generation really are.

(Trigger warning:  interview includes references to child abuse, rape, and sexual assault). 

Hey Olivia, nice to meet you and thanks for your time.  Do you consider your generation to be more progressive than older generations?

No, Gen Z is not more progressive. I think there is a small noisy group of young people on the internet that have gained traction and following to a point where it is becoming a generalized idea that our generation is a kind of a “woke savior”. I don’t see it.  This is very apparent when it comes to misogyny, which to me is entirely not surprising. 

Why aren’t you surprised by misogyny?

Over the past years, influencers like Andrew Tate have gained a mass following by promoting the idea of bringing back “manly men”. Men who only like women who aren’t “used” and men who only present themselves emotionless or angry. 

I think this idea became so popular and appealing to boys because of what social media was presenting as the alternative: being woke, and white men being the root cause of all issues. 

They don’t want to hear that, they want to hear about being alpha, strong and masculine. Even if this message is wrapped up in being sexist, racist and an overall bad human being. 

And teenage boys all just follow their friends and do what everyone else does. 

So now it’s pretty much all of them.  And if they get pulled up they say “ we’re just joking.”.  Misogyny is the culture of young boys today.  

Well that’s depressing. Can you give me some real life examples of your experiences of misogyny at school?

In my school, it is extremely difficult to voice opinions that don’t represent equity, diversity and inclusion. As these ideas are not only promoted to be the school values but they’re almost rules.

 And young boys love to break the rules, right?

For example, my friend said this boy who sits behind her in class is cute. And she asked me to see if he thinks the same about her, cause it’s high school and that’s like what you do. So I ask him and he gets taken aback, and says to me, “she’s cute but how many other guys have run through that?”.  Which immediately is like the meanest way to phrase the question. And when posed the question back at him, he just shook his head and said, “it’s different for boys though.”

Another time, it was the end of class on a Thursday, and my club was canceled and I didn’t have a ride home. I didn’t want to bus all the way home, as I had homework, so I went to ask the boy who lives a block up from me for a lift. In front of all his friends he laughs and says,  “I only give girls rides home when I want something from them.”  I got the bus.

Jeez.  And we haven’t even got to social media and technology.  How does that fit into this?

Taking photos and sharing photos is the main issue. This year, the grade eight boys, yes grade eight, got in trouble for distributing photos of a grade eight girl from another school. So, that’s technically child pornography.  The other school had to call our school because the girl was having suicidal thoughts. I asked those boys about it and they told me she “deserved it” because she dumped their friend and wouldn’t do something with him she didn’t feel comfortable with. These boys got a one-day suspension.  

Do you think older guys are any better? 

I actually believe that older males can sometimes be a better choice. They often have more dating experience, which makes them more understanding and less resentful towards girls. I’ve noticed that when I ask guys my age for favors, they often expect something in return.  In comparison, older guys are more likely to help without making me feel like I owe them. 

Do they say less misogynistic things?  Are they more mature?

No, if anything the opposite. Their “jokes” are more extreme, I think. They’ve got more experience and confidence and will joke about hitting women, or that women are the root of all evil. It’s clearly just a way of getting attention and to be seen as “funny”, but the younger guys lap it up. It’s influencing younger boys who are on the same sports teams to take these comments seriously and act like this as well.

I feel like Andrew Tate has got some responsibility here. Do you think the boys you know are influenced by him? 

Oh yeah. In my school, many boys not only followed but listened to this man, and genuinely resonated with his extreme ideas. To this day, they use the hand gestures he uses as a way to dismiss ideas posed by women. I hate it. And there’s these other podcasts where they bring women on just to shame their sexual history.  

Do teachers or parents talk about this issue with you? 

At my school there’s been a real effort over the years for the school to become more inclusive. This has turned into an ultra woke agenda being pushed on every student; we have daily meetings to understand how we can further the inclusion of these values into our education. So, while there’s a zero tolerance policy towards anything like this, it’s still high school, right? Nobody wants to be the snitch and no one wants to be the one who can’t take a “joke”. 

Teachers will ask you if there is any misogyny in their classroom, but no one will answer truthfully. Some of my friends’ parents have a “boys will be boys” attitude when my friends tell them about their experiences.  To me this is unacceptable;  there’s no excuse for this stuff and it implies that girls must always be treated like this as boys are somehow wired this way.  In my opinion boys need to be educated– they are capable of understanding right from wrong. 

I hate the fact that girls are having to go along with the idea that this behavior is the “humor” of the day, ” which is kind of how it is.  

Is that how you deal with this stuff?

I feel like when I was younger it would annoy me more, but in almost a pessimistic way I’ve accepted that this is just something I have to live with. While it’s not fair, it’s just life.  I feel the best way to respond to it is to call it out, respectfully and in a way where you can’t be perceived as the villain. 

A story that comes to mind is the dress code, which dictates girls can’t wear tight shirts or outside brand shorts in physical education classes. However, when boys cut off the sleeves of their tank tops and wear obnoxiously short shorts, they get away with it.  While I could go up to bat, and advocate for this issue all that would accomplish is being disliked by the boys. So, while I feel it’s extremely important for women of all ages to stand up to misogyny in their day-to-day lives, it is difficult and daunting.

My final question, and sorry before I ask.. but what role do you think porn plays in this?

Porn has become so normalized in our society.  And it’s extreme and it’s often violent.  As a result young boys not only think of women and sex differently, but men feel they can be more violent and can treat women as they please.  Porn isn’t real life but 14-year-old boys don’t know that; it’s warping their minds. 

The average woman does not want to look or be treated like the average porn star.  And I think it goes beyond sex, it feeds into the entitlement I see in young boys. I think the sense of entitlement also comes from the way boys seem to be parented.  In my school there is a culture of boys’ moms having an unhealthy obsession with their sons. Boys say things like “my mom doesn’t think you’re good enough for me”.  And when they really fuck up, like making jokes about the Holocaust in class (a real example), they’ll blame the teacher before looking closer to home.

Thank you Olivia.  A super interesting but pretty depressing conversation.  

No worries, such is life. 

-Ian Pierpoint